Seosamh 0:00

You're listening to Big Irish World, an Irish Diaspora podcast. Seosamh is ainm dom, And here with us today, we have a special guest.

Sasha Piton 0:07

Yes. Hi. So glad to be here. My name is Sasha. I recently just moved to Ireland. I'm technically American, but I'm also French, so I have an EU passport. And yeah, I'm just here for the ride. Here for the journey. Here for the adventure.

Seosamh 0:20

Here for the craic.

Sasha Piton 0:21

Yeah, here for the craic.

Seosamh 0:25

So what brought you to Ireland? I'm sure that's the first question the listeners are going to have. Like, what brings a person to Ireland in this day and age?

Sasha Piton 0:31

I mean, it's beauty. There's so many things. I also, honestly, just speaking logistically, even like, yes, I'm French, but I'm not fluent. And honestly, my grandparents have passed away these last few years. And so not having that connection, like where it's a specific family connection in France, it makes it so that, like, okay, if I don't have that, that means I don't feel as connected to move to France as I did before my grandparents passed. So therefore, I do want to get out of the States. Where can I move? Um, I've traveled to Ireland a couple of times, absolutely loved it. I was just here a year ago, and everything in me was like, oh my God, I could live here everywhere I went. Travel all up and down, you know, the Atlantic way. It was just like everywhere. I was like, God, I could live here, I could live here. And finally I was like, oh, wait, am I gonna actually move to Ireland? I think so. And then I'm like, well, realistically, and realistically, people speak English here, and so therefore it's like, yes, I I I have the bandwidth to change my whole life, and also there's not a language barrier there. And I'm here, like living as an immigrant, coming to a new country, like figuring out everything that I have to figure out. I genuinely I've always loved immigrants, but I have such respect for people that do it when there is a language barrier because it's been overwhelming for me and I don't have a language barrier. So yeah, it's so it's it was a mix of like I love it here. I was visiting here, and every day I kept feeling like God, I could live here, and then combined with like, okay, logistically, I can move to Europe and I would love to move somewhere that I think I could do this, you know, immigrant life without a language bill.

Seosamh 1:57

Hey, if you've got the means, you know, if you can if you if you can get there, I'm just saying, like that's that's that's so hard. And I know that um uh a lot of the way that people discuss immigration or emigration in uh in the modern discourse, if I'm using my ear quotes, is uh it's very simplified. I think a lot of it comes from the fact that our brains struggle to differentiate between fiction and non-fiction, and that we consume a lot of non-fiction where if all you have is an image of um so we we went through this recently with uh the passing of my wife's father, um where uh there's this assumption that when someone passes, uh if you envision in your mind you're sitting in a theater, uh the very next scene they're gonna go to is like, you know, first you maybe you're in a hospital, and then there's a funeral, and then you know, what happens next? There's a quick segue over to like the attorney's office, and they're like, and then the very next scene is wow, this person gets this thing, this person gets that thing. And so people connect the dots in this really like short linear way, and so whenever it happens to them, they're like, Well, actually, it's a very long, drawn-out legal process, and it's unfortunately very convoluted, and it's not as straightforward as that. And boy, it doesn't happen in three scene changes.

Sasha Piton 3:10

So, yeah, yeah, absolutely true. And I and I definitely like I had to, I couldn't have moved here if I hadn't sold my house because I got laid off and I couldn't move here with my job. I had looked into that previously, and ever since I told them, like, hey, I'm looking to move to Ireland, I I'm hoping I can take the job with me. They immediately started treating me differently. It was very much like very intent on laying me off as soon as possible. Like it was very off, very like I'm gonna say annoying, but like painful, just like frustrating and like all the things. And then I'm like, okay, well, now how do I move to Europe without a job? And then it was like, okay, well, I have to sell my house then because I can't rent it out and afford to do this life where I'm I I was laid off, where like I lost my job, job, and I do social media. That's how you and I found each other, and I love social media, but in order to keep content creation fun and exciting, I have done it part-time the last year because I feel like when I rely on it for my livelihood, it became I get burnt out very easily. And so just like logistically, even from the time that I was like, I was in Ireland a year ago, and from the time that I had the thought of like, oh my God, I think I could move there to the time that I actually did it, it was 11 months. You know, there is so much logistics that go into moving and and figuring out, okay, like how do I do this with my job? And then like getting laid off my job, like my, if you will, nine to five that I had part time. And then it's like, okay, well, maybe I can pick up social media. Like, okay, that's doing pretty well. Now, how do I I actually have to sell my house? So, like, let me do this process of selling my house, which then takes forever. It's like all these hoops you have to jump through, and then I'm here and I don't have housing. You know, I'm staying in an Airbnb right now. So, again, it's just all these logistics of trying to figure this out that I again just have such respect for people. I mean, there's a lot of people.

Seosamh 4:45

Certainly a pivot, like you're Irish.

Sasha Piton 4:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, just like because I am an immigrant and I'm the daughter of an immigrant. My dad's French, you know, like and then growing up you know, in Arizona, which is very has a lot of Mexican immigrants. I feel like I've always I'm I would say I'm immigrant sympathetic. Like I really understand the journey, whether whether it's fully legal, which my family has always done in a very legal way, I understand also why people do it illegally, if you will. Um, and especially in the states and knowing how much money it takes and everything, and and and I'll say in the states, there's all these systems that they can live and work while being, if you will, I'm using air quotes illegal. So it's just like I understand if somebody's escaping something and they're, you know, begging for a different way of life, and they can get to a country and they can operate, if you will, in a way that's not necessarily aligned with all the systems. But I every immigrant I've ever met growing up always was actively trying to make it legal, actively paying taxes, actively, you know what I mean? So it's like even though they're in this weird process, I don't know.

Seosamh 5:41

I just you don't even really get to choose whether you pay taxes a lot of the time. Like it's it's it's taken out, and then they just don't get a refund. Right. So it's like they're they're paying into the the system the whole time.

Sasha Piton 5:52

Yes, and people don't realize that.

Seosamh 5:54

Oh, I know it's billions, billions of dollars a year. Um but it's fascinating. I do love I do love the idea that you have this baked-in framework for um not just the concept of immigration um as an abstract, but you have personal family uh that can inform what it's like from a subjective perspective, like what it is to be yourself an immigrant and what that process is. I feel like having people close to you in proximity family or like historically wise, like people who have your ear growing up, if they tell you some of the difficulties of doing that journey, it's easy to romanticize, right? Like what um the grass is always greener on the other side, you know. Um it's easy to romanticize things that seem different. But when you have folks who have actually made that journey, they often enough come with this pragmatism that's baked in from the story uh the school of hard knocks and scars after scars, and uh there's a uh movie that I remember uh there's a great Disney movie. I think you can watch it on Disney Plus. I think it's like a paramount movie because they're swearing in it, but it's effectively a Disney movie uh called Love and Monsters, where they have this line in it that I love. Um where he says uh uh there's a young man, and I'm trying to spoil the movie, God. Uh so there's a young man, he has to go across a great distance in uh across the country, and it's very dangerous. Uh I'll say there are monsters. The name is the name of the movie is Love and Monsters, that doesn't feel like a spoiler. But there are monsters between A and B, and he's not doing a great job. He's kind of he's nearly dying a couple of times, and uh he gets fished out of this like insane scenario by the guy who played Merle from The Walking Dead, if you remember him. Uh much nicer, much more sympathetic in this scenario. He's a much nicer character in this movie. Um But he's telling this kid, this uh he says, You need to work on your instincts. And the kid says, Well, I don't have any instincts. And he says, you know, if you can survive a couple of mistakes, you can make some instincts. And that's where instincts come from. It's just from surviving mistakes. If you can survive more than a few mistakes, then you'll be okay. And I feel like the more you're around folks that have actually made those types of difficult crossings and journeys, for uh whether or not it's a long geographic distance, um, sometimes it's really just the paperwork. It's a mountain that you have to get through just legally to do things so that you don't get scooped up on one side or the other. And um and you know, germane to what we were saying a moment ago, uh, there are a lot of folks that are in the United States that are, you know, uh that were Docker recipients, or uh they overstayed a visa. So where there are folks on the border talking about, oh, I need to build the wall, build the wall. And it's like well, they're flying into an airport with a visa that's legal, and then they overstay it at some point. But a lot of the folks that we're talking about at this point, the actual scale volume of the population that we're talking about, these aren't all folks that did this yesterday. They're they're people who came with the child, or they did this like 20 years ago, and there really is an established sense of self in the community, and there's been more than a few folks that I've seen on the political uh sp uh right spectrum that have had real regrets about um some of the changes in foreign policy and the way that folks have gotten rounded up, where they say, Well, I didn't think that they were gonna get rid of Javier, who was down at the corner who worked at the store. You know, oh my god, why would they mess with him? He's the nicest guy I've ever known. They were just here to get rough up all the bad guys, these like masked, armed thugs in the night, you know.

Sasha Piton 9:11

Yeah, I'm gonna say to you, only Trump supporters didn't know that that was gonna happen. Everyone else was like, Oh my god. Oh my god, I know. There's videos of me crying when the election happened. Like, are you aware of what's about to happen? Like the deportations at a violent level are gonna be astronomical, and people are like, oh girl, you're blowing it out of proportion. It's gonna be criminals, it's gonna be and I'm like, no, because when you have a racist president, it's not criminals. Anyone who's black and brown is a criminal in his eyes. So they're these ICE, you know, agencies are going to immigration meetings to haul to round people up and haul them out of there. And they're not getting deported back to their own country, they're sitting at a country.

Seosamh 9:48

Is it when when you say that immigration meetings um is it I feel like people listening, that's a courts. People who show up at their court date. Um there was, oh, I could look it up. There was a recent uh there was a recent issue where there was a I want to say a young couple. Uh he's a young Caucasian Marine, or at least a service member, they would show him in fatigues. And she is a um quote um undocumented immigrant. She has uh she's been on the books and working with immigration authorities this entire time. She has never once flown off the radar, she has facilitated every request, and she shows up for a court meeting, and they pop her like she's just no one. You know? And what's wild is all of the folks that say, you know, you should have done it the right way. Uh and of course these are folks that are the uh descendants of people who made it over here pre-LS Island, or at least pre uh what our border policy is now in the United States. Where uh literally the right way up until fairly recent historically was get here and don't die. Yeah. That was that you just got here. That's why they started doing census. Like uh there's all this hot goss right now, not hot goss, but it's it's really popular. People going through the 1926 census in Ireland, and people forget that the reason that censuses as a concept even happened was that countries didn't historically do this at their borders. Like if you wandered into whatever country, like you were just suddenly in that country, and if you could make a living and raise a family or whatever, you were just the whatevers that live down whatever street. You know, they just didn't do this. So the census was to figure out well how many people do we freaking have? And like how many you know, plumbers do we have, and how many bakers do we have? Like, we don't even know. Like, so that's why they started doing these things. So um early on in the like the early 20th century in the United States, they started implementing some of these policies and oh my god. So I just moved my I just moved the books into the office. One of the thickest ones I have is a Jerry Mulville book that you and I could just cry scream through for like a week. Like it's just one of these thick tomes, and so much of it is just the craziness that people do whenever they externalize what the value is of their neighbor or what their responsibilities are to their neighbor's safety. You know, we play with these definitions and we end up using this kind of weird word magic that suddenly takes this person who has not done anything themselves, and we've like socially turned them into this other where it's okay to do horrible things to them. And I feel like in the political environment that we're in right now, I in totally like a homlin, I agree with you completely. Um I think that it takes a special degree of um disconnection on trying to be generous, and disenfranchisement, uh trying to be generous. Um it's just like uh Tucker Carlson, I don't know if you heard this recently, uh he's come out recently and said that uh, oh geez, who was this guy? We didn't realize who he was. Oh geez, you know? Um this guy who is the actual literal template for so many of the 80s and 90s villains in cartoons and movies. The literal Googelable template for Biff Tannin from Back to the Future, and a Max Track uh the bad guy from Batman 2, and like the Badman the Bad Guy from Time Cop and the bad guy uh Bowser from the old Mario movie. And like, oh my god, that's such a laundry list. But it's so weird, and uh for folk for for anyone listening along that uh isn't aware, I feel like all you ever need to do to poke a hole in this recent kind of oh well I didn't know is you look back to when uh Trump's first uh tr his first announcement that he was going to run when he was descending down the escalator. Um I think they all none of them saw this coming. In in that I don't think they ever thought he would win anything because they knew who he was and they said so. They were real loud about him, they're real loud about him then. There's some supercuts of that of some of those conversations too. And um I don't know. He also just operates in a sphere, like he's kinda uh Tucker Carlson's got old trust fund money. So like it would be weird that he wouldn't know who that guy is. Also weird, anyhow. Yeah I'm so sorry, not trying to hijack. I just I I get a lot of energy from this from this specific context. It's just so wild. It's so wild here.

Sasha Piton 14:14

I just it's it's interesting also coming from the climate politically that I do because I feel like I was in a place where I felt very betrayed as an American, like by my government, by my fellow like people that voted for them. Yeah, you know, and also coming here has made me realize how many of my instincts were I'm gonna say human instincts, like meaning like just growing up around people that spoke different languages and you know, having a dad that had to learn English and all this stuff. Like, I feel like there'd be times that even people would be like, Oh, well, people need to learn English, and I'd be like, Why? Like they can find people in their community if they can get by. Of course, they're good, they have to understand English to be able to read science, so they're not completely English unaware, but for the most part, if they're not using it in their daily life, I don't imagine they would have to read it.

Seosamh 15:00

Imagine that gross lack of empathy where someone says, How dare you not speak English? Because that makes life hard for me. And they never once for a moment stop to think. So here's a human being in this environment that you are that is so uh it is so such ill fit for what you perceive as normality that perhaps their lives are in fact far more complicated by the fact that they don't have that English that you're talking about, or that they're not speaking that English that you're talking about. So maybe the empathy should be, you poor thing, you're really trying. I can't imagine what it would be like to be dropped in Mexico City and I don't speak any Spanish. Right. And also they're it's basic empathy though. Where's the empathy? How hard is that?

Sasha Piton 15:46

Right? Sadly hard for people because I also think about how much English they understand, and they may not have the language skills to speak it back. And I'm realizing that now, even more so. Like I already felt that, but then now being here, where it's an English-speaking country, I can't tell you how how um again, I am I'm putting my life out on social media, so in a sense, like I'm aware of the lifestyle that I have, but the amount of Irish opinions coming at me is like drinking from a fire hydrant, and everyone's being loving and kind and gracious and wonderful. But every time I eat something, every time I show myself drinking something, every time I'm cooking something, they're just like, oh, that's not the way we do it. And like, I'm not making a classic Irish potato sandwich. I'm making my sandwich the way that I'm going to eat it. But it's just a little overwhelming of like, and so then my my social group at the moment, I've been here for literally a month and like a few days, has been is Americans coming over here. And I'm like, I literally understand why where I grew up, a lot of Mexicans sought out a Mexican community. And I understand that now, being an American who speaks English, but is seeing that in American community who can just for a moment be like, yeah, the flavors are a little bit different. That's a little tough. It's it's hard to like when you're trying to season and eat food that you're used to eating and you're in this English-speaking kind. It's very normal, right? Like my my life experience day to day isn't that widely different. However, it's just different enough to feel like it's it's unsettling. It's not, I don't, I'm not grounded. And then to have people telling me every five seconds, like, oh, don't drink your coffee that way. That's terrible. Like, oh, you should have put this in your sandwich. Like, you should try this town, this town, this town. And I'm and I'm audacity. But I want to be like some of these are drinking wrong every fucking town in this country. Have you?

Seosamh 17:32

You know, that's wild to me. I feel like that's another big uh diaspora. Like, I feel like that's a big cornerstone of what I hope to have conversations on. I'm not a broken you, you're not a broken me, you're not drinking your drink wrong, you know? Right. Like you're fine. Drink your drink. Like, if there's a a certain way that a certain group does it and that's just their thing, hang on, man. Like, no one's telling you not to. Like, the second that you start imposing your will and say, no, no, you're doing things wrong, I feel like they would have a little bit more like to stand on and be like, okay, nobody asked for that, you know. But in this case, you are the recipient of the show of like you're doing it wrong, you're doing it wrong, and that's not the this way, and that's not the that way. And I feel like it's like, look, man, I'm not a broken you, you're not a broken me. Can we just like coexist for a second here? Like, I'm not selling other people like this is the right way to do this, you know. That guy over there, he thinks he knows how to do it, but he's way wrong, you know.

Sasha Piton 18:26

Right, and even if you look at this video where I travel to a different town to go look at it and check it out, and in the video, there's gonna be at least 20 comments of telling me other towns to visit. And it's like I'm aware that there are other towns in this country, but this is just the video I have about this town that I went to this particular day.

Seosamh 18:42

You're like, I'll get to it if I live long enough and I don't starve, man.

Sasha Piton 18:45

Yeah, but I it's hard, but also I will say all of that, I don't feel like anyone's being rude in any way. I feel like people are just really kind and they love their country and they have this, you know, like I love what I love, right? But it's making me very aware of the experience when you do immigrate. And again, I have such respect for people that do that when they don't speak the language, they're figuring it all out, but also the understanding of why they seek out their own community, you know. And I think for so many years, I I just feel like I I was around people because I lived in kind of conservative states in the in the United States that that were just confused by that.

Seosamh 19:20

Would it be weird to ask for the states that you lived in? No, not at all.

Sasha Piton 19:24

So I grew up in Arizona, I was born in California, but I grew up in Arizona. Um and also it's funny, is born in California and went to a French preschool, right? Because we're French, like, and then moved to Arizona. There isn't access to that in the same way. And then um lived in Arizona my whole life, like as a kid, and then went to college there. And then I moved to Utah, and then I lived in Idaho last. And those are two very conservative. Arizona has switched a little bit between you know, conservative and medium.

Seosamh 19:49

Idaho, you say.

Sasha Piton 19:50

But Idaho and Utah have been very conservative through and through for years.

Seosamh 19:54

Yeah, um, so I feel like a lot of folks, I feel like a lot of folks in Ireland, they don't they God, how ironic is that? Is that they might hear Idaho and they'll think, oh, potatoes? Yes, everyone. But if somebody here knows Idaho, you're like, you're like, no, dude, seriously, like you just gave a list and you're like California, I'm like, all right, yeah, uh, border panic, money, panic, and you're like Arizona, I'm like, border panic, money, panic, lots of retirees. They're like, you get to Idaho, and I'm like, oh boy, Idaho! Oh, like they know what 223 long rifle is out there.

Sasha Piton 20:26

Oh yeah.

Seosamh 20:27

Yeah, like uh there's that whole history of um everybody knows the game, the Oregon Trail, but they don't know a lot of the context of why was everyone moving up towards Oregon? What was it about the way that Oregon was founded that made all of these white people want to go there? What were the early laws of Oregon that should probably pop your eyes when you see the picture portion of the Wikipedia page, you know? Um yeah, wild out there. Uh I've got friends, um, I'm sure unsurprisingly we've got friends on the west coast, uh, Portland, Los Angeles. Um, actually, uh my my buddy uh Van, he's out in Arizona now. Um I'm doing the old person thing where I just list off people that I actually know and like places. Places you bet you're gonna start listening to them. Makes me seem more worldly than I am. Trying to like expand, be like be like some kind of like prestigious host or something. Uh so oh my goodness. So that is so god has so much to drink in.

Sasha Piton 21:18

So I will but this is the other two is I again coming from the political climate that I did, it's very easy for people to if I could try this, I could try this.

Seosamh 21:26

You made a post the other day, and I swear to you, I was literally tearing. Uh, where you were you were talking about well, I say the other day, uh you were talking about uh uh coming out of your I guess an immigration meeting, and there were tractors on the street from the the the fuel crisis protests, and you're looking around and you're like, I see adults protesting, and some of them are yelling, but I'm not like like shields up scared. Like and and folks over here don't know what that is, but that it is a real lived concern right now for like. Lots of folks in the US where you go to a protest for um teachers getting a fair wage and there will be someone there with a firearm you can see and they won't be cops and the cops are gonna let them walk because they have a piece of paper that's a get to. Now I'm not saying like I think that guns should be banned, like cars are presently banned, right? You know, no one goes into the DMV and is like, you know, they're banning all the cars. You know? I feel like there's there's a middle ground between where we are and like a place where we could be less afraid of this stuff. Um when we were talking a moment ago, we were discussing the uh the differences in political violence that you observe in uh uh the West Coast uh Pacific specifically Pacifically, that's funny. Uh specifically the Pacific Northwest Um and the differences in political activism in Ireland. And I feel like um there is a uh the Instagram reel that I was discussing a moment ago, I loved that it evoked a sense of safety. And I know from a lot of friends who have been living through this most recent political environment in the United States that we've kind of collectively gotten to a point where once you reach safety, uh you just emotionally unravel because you have all of this catharsis backed up. You know? Um uh there is a s there's a song uh I want to say it's by uh Emma Longford or Langford. Oh, I'm so terrible. I'll I'll put it in the show notes. Uh where the hook is uh till your eyes find me. What is that to I'm gonna sing horribly, I'm so bad. Toboro and Oram, I'm so sorry for this. Till your eyes find me, I'm strong as my bones. Till then here I stand, I'm strong as my bones. Till your eyes find me, I'm strong as my bones. Till then only then, I'm strong as my bones. So part of what I love about that, un uh until then only then, it's kind of once you cross that finish line, you're like, I'm just gonna lose my shit emotionally. Once I'm like, okay, okay, okay, and you're just like let yourself go. And I feel like it's gotten to this point where there's been so much trauma aggregating and there's been so much pressure aggregating that like the second someone sees like someone sends you a well-timed Mr. Rogers meme and it just destroys you emotionally, you know? Like everything becomes a Pixar movie.

Sasha Piton 24:27

Yeah, I will say though, I do possess all the white privilege in the world, so it I yes, I do feel safer here, but I don't like and yes, I went to protests in Idaho Falls where I lived, where there were men walking around with AR-15s just out of sheer wanting to intimidate people, and they legally can do that, and that's horrifying. And yes, woking up to a protest in Dublin for a split second, I was like, Oh, I shouldn't approach because I don't know where the exits are. I'm not sure like what I would do in case a shooter came. And I don't mean the guard, I meant a human being like who doesn't agree with you, right? Like for me, police being armed is very normal, so but also like I'm not as a white person, I'm not as worried about law enforcement attacking me, but I am.

Seosamh 25:14

I appreciate you acknowledging that.

Sasha Piton 25:15

It's it's just like just I well, the only reason why is because I feel like radio interviews, like I did a column for the uh Irish Journal and and now this podcast, I'm gonna be labeled as the girl that like escaped gun violence in the States. And I just want to make it known, like, I'm not escaping anything. As a white person, I made a choice, and also as someone with an EU passport, it was always my intention to use it to move. And so, yes, I do feel safer here. It's it's really lovely that I don't have to worry about people carrying guns in grocery stores like I did in Idaho. And I will say I was so used to it there that it wasn't as overwhelmingly like, and I think I'll exhale very slowly here. I think it'll certain things will become much more normal to me here, but I don't think that it will make me then hate the United States. And that was something I was gonna say earlier, too, is like what's hard about moving in this current political climate is that there's a lot of assumptions being made because of the fact that I absolutely disagree with Donald Trump and I can't stand him. And I think he's, you know, this greedy, misogynistic, horrible person. And the people that follow him are are just reiterating these horrible things that are going on to people. But unfortunately, I'm not the people that they're attacking. I'm a white woman, you know. Like, of course, I have to face certain issues because I am a woman that you don't have to face as a white man, you know what I mean? Like, but I'm also not a black and brown person, and I'm not from Mexico, I'm not from Africa and in the We are not the bottom of this caste system, right? Exactly.

Seosamh 26:43

And it's good to remember that there are people, there are people that currently are struggling below us and to do what we can to help those help those communities however we can. Uh it doesn't mean it doesn't mean we'll be able to do absolutely everything all the time, but with the amount of nothing going on out there, it's a pretty low bar. So I feel like folks that if you can just have a hard conversation with your co-workers, I feel like you did more than nothing today. If you're able to post a you know, some political commentary to your social that maybe speaks to something that you value. Or that it that's something that upsets you, that's more than nothing today. And that there's gonna be a whole bunch of people that do nothing today, they did nothing yesterday, they're gonna do nothing tomorrow and not tell you what they're doing next week. But I think that it's it's gonna be a victory by degrees. A lot of people working together and doing things, I think, in the same direction. Because similarly to how I think um bad things, um, bad issues compound when we all make the same mistake in the same way. Um good things can similarly compound. We just have to give ourselves enough opportunity to compound them. We need to make the law of averages actually work for us. Oh my god. I can't tell you. You see Toby here?

Sasha Piton 27:53

I do, your little cat there.

Seosamh 27:55

Oh my god. He wants to be on my lap. Come on, God. Tell him stuff.

Sasha Piton 28:02

I just I think sometimes with with there's many, there's many people watching me right now, and it's so lovely, and I love sharing my journey, and I love that you know, there's people asking me to comment and this and that, and I, you know, again, I wrote that article for the Irish Journal, and yes, like realizing the gun violence moment was a moment for me, but I think revisiting that is making me feel a little bit like I just want to, I just want to be also be not like I'm writing the coattails of people that actually do live in danger every day from my home country. Well, you know what I mean?

Seosamh 28:30

You're reminding me you're reminding me, you're reminding me. Um, we can either um I was trying to get this a moment ago. I'm so sidetracked, we got cat bombed. Um I know that there is um I feel like it's really easy to explore the well-modelled picture of uh something horrible was traumatic to me recently and I got away from it, and now I'm away from the thing that's traumatic, right? And then you say, you know, that's it, the end right off into the sunset, like that's the end of the story. But uh I forget who said it, there is no the end, there is only the and um in this circumstance I feel like you have this opportunity to potentially use it as a superpower. Similarly to how uh the way that the the girls talk in dairy girls um or people who live like they're in dairy girls, um is that you can say I come from a harder street, friend. You're like if I don't if I know that seriously, statistically, I'm looking around and I'm doing my research, it doesn't look like I'm gonna run into a gun today. I don't know, might buy a bullhorn, you know? You know, like it can become this, um, it's not just that you've gone from below zero to zero. You're like, how far can I take this now that we've gotten some of that factor out? I feel like it's an opportunity to kind of A B test the this is the amount of political activism that I felt like I was able to do and feel like I was going to come home alive. And over here, same same mission statement, you know, you're able to get a whole lot more done, frankly, because the the specter of violence I think is much lower. Now, I do not want to dismiss for a moment that there are violent actions that occur at any political uh event. Uh this podcast is actually in the DC region right now, so boy, I will tell you, well-meaning folks um of all stripes, they often come together and they have their own kind of narrative for why they're there, and it's easy for people to forget that there are multiple narratives that bring people to an event. Uh, we're seeing this a lot right now with the uh the uh fuel crisis right now in Ireland, where this is the first kind of foray into political activism that a lot of folks have had. So they're seeing this kind of moulange of like, why is that guy over there saying um that the reason that we're here is because we're communists, and the those guys over there say the reason that we're here is because we're fascists, and those people over there say that we're here because, you know, it's Taco Tuesday. You know, so you get to this event and you're like, am I even in the right place? Like, who are all these people? I didn't expect to see these people here. And that is not a bad protest. In fact, that is probably a very good protest. It's just you're always gonna have you're always gonna have folks in there that are uh some older activists that got me when I was younger was they said there's gonna be wackos in every crowd, man. There's gonna be wackos in every crowd. Where you're marching in the same direction, but some percentage of those folks are gonna be varying degrees of well. And um I think really what I think really what we have to address in moments like that is any kind of chilling effect that is keeping people from their political activism so that they can live their principles and they can back their vote with action.

Sasha Piton 31:51

And um I think that whenever people I will say that is the part that's hard about the states is people feel like they can't exactly back their political action um or back their political action. Well, without without a potential for consequence, and that is that is just a reality that a lot of people face. But I also want to make it known that I didn't I didn't exactly like escape America, I ran toward Ireland, and that's to me two different things because and you already had an EU passport, didn't you, at this point? Yes, and that that's a that's a big thing for me. Yes, and I'm so grateful that I have this opportunity, and yes, it did cost me everything of my life previous. I had to sell my house, I couldn't have done it without doing that, and I don't have endless funds, right? Like I sold my house and the and I my idea was do I invest it for my entire retirement or do I move to Ireland and I chose to move to Ireland, right? Like there are high stakes for me. It's not like it's nothing, but I also I just want to make sure that I feel like in all the voices and places I've been able to like voice this, and people are taking that story and running with it with me outside the protest. I also want to have an opportunity to say, yes, and I'm also running toward Ireland, I'm running toward a certain way of life. I'm I'm running to things that I think are lovely and wonderful that have been part of my family's history. You know, my mother's Irish by heritage, as am I, but I'm French in every fiber of my being. So it's hard when I feel like side note when people message me, like, oh my gosh, like how's the food in Ireland? I'm like, I mean, honestly, I prefer French food. It's not like it's the first time I've ever been out of the United States. I think some people are kind of treating me like I'm Bambi.

Seosamh 33:27

I always laugh when folks do that. When they try to say, like, um, what uh which food in this whole complex country do you like? Do you like it more this than this? They treat these two monoliths. Oh my god. Like um, I don't think you can realize there isn't a street, like you can't think of any one street while you're going through a main drag in Dublin and you're like, what is the food on this street? Right. What is this street's food? Right? All these different restaurants up and down both sides. What is this street's food?

Sasha Piton 33:58

But I will say the Irish are definitely doing that too because I feel like they're like they'll message me, like, I'm like, oh my gosh, I just love that there's like these blooms on these trees, it's so lovely. And they're like, Do you not have that in the States? And it's like, I don't think Irish people realize what a mass of land the United States is because imagine going somewhere in the United States, pick a spot, I don't care, New York, and someone's like, Oh my gosh, do you not have that in Europe? You know what I mean? Like they're yes, do they have this in the states? Of course, of course. But where I live is not the same weather or agriculture as where I am right now. So I'm enjoying where I am right now because compared to where I was living in the desert, this is quite different. This is very wet, there's a lot of rain, there's a body of what I'm on an island, right? Like I've never I've never even been stretching the evening. You know, I've been landlocked my entire life, and so it's just hard because I feel like Irish people are like also treating me a little bit like I'm a Bambi, like seeing things for the first time. Like, do you not have that in the States? Like, yes, it exists in the United States, the same way that the deserty plants that I grew up with exist in Spain here, but you're not aware of the Spain things on a daily basis because you don't live in Spain, right? So, like it is different, but it's you're you're talking about a massive piece of land that I've only lived. Yes, I've lived in a few states, Utah, Idaho, you know, Arizona, but I have still primarily lived in the desert. My family has lived in Las Vegas for the last 20 years. So like I've spent a lot of time in Nevada. Like I have lived in the dead, even Idaho where I lived, is still like desert.

Seosamh 35:17

It's still it's like a big, it's like a very large um do you ever play Minecraft? Is this a weird question? No. I was gonna say it's like at it in Minecraft, they have these different biomes. Like you have a grassland biome and you have like a mountainous biome, you have a desert biome. And so, like, if you keep wandering just over long distances, you're like you travel these different types of land. Um, and I feel like folks really do forget how vast the United States is compared to Ireland. So Ireland itself is, believe it or not. Oh, do I have it? Yeah, I do. I have a picture of it. So Ireland is roughly the size of the state of South Carolina. Fun fact. Yeah, it's about the same size as the state of South Carolina. And I know one of the things that really, really blows the doors off of gales that have just never been to the states before is how much time you spend traveling from A to B. Like not realizing uh they'll say, uh, you know, well, well, uh how long, oh, how far away is it? And you're like, oh, it's 20 minutes drive. And you're like, 20 minutes drive! You know, where the hell is it? Or you'll be driving um an hour to get to somewhere and that's not super abnormal. Like if you there's some folks that do that for like groceries, if you have a really good grocery store, like a big uh big box store or something, you'll drive for like an hour just to get to like the good one.

Sasha Piton 36:26

But it also depends on where you live because some people are driving for 20 minutes or an hour in traffic versus driving 20 minutes or an hour in country roads.

Seosamh 36:33

Oh yeah. You know what I mean?

Sasha Piton 36:34

So that's a difference, too. Very hard to know. Where I lived was a little bit more rural, not not as rural as parts of Idaho rural, but or or sorry, Ireland rural, but like you know, I did from where I lived in.

Seosamh 36:45

My people were cows and oranges. My people were cows and oranges.

Sasha Piton 36:48

But from where I lived in suburbia to go to the closest grocery store was, you know, a 15-minute drive by car with zero traffic. You know what I mean? Like it just is what it is. So when I'm over here taking public transport and I'm like, oh, it's taking me. I am I am struggling like with the whole timing of public transport, like walking to the public transport and then getting on a train it only comes at certain times, like, yeah, I'll figure it out. And my life, like nothing is needed for me to necessarily be on time right now. But it's definitely like, you know, the yes, the US is a bigger piece of land that I think people realize, like traveling nine hours to visit my family via car. So people are like, Oh, how does your family feel? I'm like, I don't know, they'll just try travel nine hours in a plane. Like, I'm not really worried. I didn't I didn't ask them, like, I they didn't ask me about their lives when they type like moved to Las Vegas, and so I didn't ask what their opinion was when I decided to move to Ireland. I think they all knew that I wanted to move to Europe eventually, so it just is now a time frame that it's happening in. But yeah. If anything, I was a little bit nervous and self-aware when I first got here because I feel like because of having a French family, that while I'm I'm American, they really struggle with Americans, and so being a little bit overly mindful of like trying not to appear American as much because I do when I'm in Europe and when I'm discussing family, I live a very local way, right? So, and what I have found here is that people are really, I think, are pleasantly surprised by me. I think maybe some people do have an opinion, or maybe there's like stereotypes of Americans that they've heard, but then once we interact, they're like, wow, like you're great. Like, and I'm like, Yeah, I am, I am great, thanks so much, you know. But for the most important thing, I don't need children at all.

Seosamh 38:19

It's kind of like Severance, where they're like, you know, you you don't have any pouches on your stomach or whatever, you know. I sorry, sorry, I make a lot of TV references. Very American in that way. Way too much TV. Yeah. Um have been lovely. So oh, so before we started talking, um I sent you two pieces of music. Uh one was uh La Les Verte, and the other one was Autumn Lights by the Green Lads. Now, those two groups are French. Those are two French-Irish groups. Um part of the re Oh my god, I'm under attack. Cats are tearing place apart. Oh my god. Autumn like that's a cute little monster. That's that one. Tyrants today. Come on, let's get a reason. I'm so sorry for the wildlife in my room. Um uh representation. Oh, so uh one of the one of the big mission statements of the podcast is that the diaspora is diverse and that there are lots of different ways to be a gale. And that'll I think that that specific diversity is far underexplored, and that there is a god, I forget who said it first. There was like a 13 curses of the United States, where if you're part of a group that doesn't have a movie or a TV show about it, you not only don't technically exist yet, you're passively encouraged not to. Right? It's that whole on-screen representation matters, and that's partially why. Um because whenever folks don't have like a visual model for this stuff, it freezes where where you can even be. It's like uh Americans that go over to the UK and they say like poppycock or something. Like they're stuck in like the 1910s or something. They're like, Where the hell do you think you are right now? Like you think everyone should have like top hats and like cloaks and stuff. Um the diaspora is diverse. The French Irish. Um, so there is a place in France called Brittany. And uh if you look on the Wikipedia page, uh they have some cool pictures of signage there where they do speak a Gaelic dialect. So there is not only folks who are identify as French Irish, and they can fiddle with where they put that hyphen, but also they speak a version of a Gaelic dialect. And he leans in closer to the microphone, and it's on their road signs and stores.

Sasha Piton 40:51

So uh Well, I will tell you really quick, uh, my family hails from Bettinny like anciently again. Like, but what's interesting is we did our DNA, right?

Seosamh 41:00

So we knew about the Gauls and the Gaels.

Sasha Piton 41:02

Yeah, well, my we knew my mom's family was very Irish and like her, you know, great-great-great-grandparents, whatever, but all both sets came from Ireland, whatever everyone married Irish Catholics until my mom's generation. Um, but what's interesting is we did a my dad's DNA, and he was very Irish, and he was like, wait, what the hell? And so then we did my grandmother's, my meme's DNA, uh, sadly, like a week before she died. Like, we just were like, Hey, would you like spit into this tube? We're like really curious about DNA and like ancestry, and she's like, Yeah, sure. Realizing she's very Irish. And so now when you say that, just knowing that my family hails from Brittany anciently, and the fact that genetically, my my meme and my dad had no idea that they were very Irish, which just goes to tell you how much you know that French Irish Irish vibe is really a thing.

Seosamh 41:43

It is so much of a thing. Oh my god. So I sent you two songs when the point was I was sending you two bands. Like, this is not one thing that they did one time, this is in fact their whole thing the whole of the time. So there's lots of bands like this. Um, oh my god. So that's the thing, is that it's not just uh one of the things that that rub that kind of rubs me the wrong way is that there's this monolithic concept of Irishness, and that if you don't conform to this kind of honestly, subjectively, kind of paddywhacked idea of what this one, like either you're a tiger or a you know, whatever. But I feel like you can look at yourself as saying, uh, this person is French Irish. And um So I don't know if I don't know if you had a chance to listen to the last episode, but I feel like it it's easier to have the conversation instead of speaking about things in terms of when someone says, I'm Irish, people are like they they come in and they're like analyzing, they're like scanning for red hair, scanning for last names, scanning for fadas, you know, boop beep, I don't think this person is actually Irish, and then they opine on it. I feel like it's more productive to think about it in the terms of um if someone approached you, if someone approaches a person, A approaches B, uh, you know, I'm just I'm just a boy asking a girl, are you Irish? And then what what the what the response is, it has to understand that this is a proxy question. It is a question of do I have to tell you all of this other stuff to make this joke I just thought of? Or will you probably get it the first time? Right? It's a proxy for stuff. Um, familiarity or um a personal claim to a connection. You can say like there is a lineage there, and I know that I have a bloodline there, but I know that I know that you also have an interest, like you're wandering the wild Atlantic way, or the wild western way, whichever you want to pronounce that. Like you really are walking around and you're taking in the sites, you're trying to take in the country. You moved there, and what a trustfall! What a trustfall! You you were already already a European citizen with a passport, which at that point I will leave anybody, anybody who ever tried to have any bristle back on uh you're like you don't you know why are you this American moving to Ireland you're like European citizen you get to sit down common market that's what this means it's you know like just that's just a done deal a done deal but um as someone who also faced uh who also got laid off uh last year uh during the season of the doge um I I get that fall that free fall of um you get laid off and even if you have a bit of an Estake from selling your house boy without that steady stream coming in there's that uncertainty that just starts sitting on you and you slid your chips to Ireland like that's to me I feel like that's that is a great compliment in saying um I don't see this as a taking but as a this is where I believe I can be safe and have a home and be and belong. And it sounds like you've had a great experience.

Sasha Piton 45:01

Um I've primarily been a tourist in Ireland and now that I'm here the only thing I can say is that I know it's different live in a place. It's different once people are like she's not leaving you know right exactly so like I I can only I've only explored the West you know two times in ten years and each time was for a week. Like so I've previous to moving here I had spent two weeks all in all of Ireland in my life you know what I mean like so I can't exactly speak to how I feel in certain areas versus others and this and that but what I do know is that I think for a lot of years and this is not exact question you were asking but I think a lot of people were just like how do you feel about you know oh just as a visitor coming in of other people Americans would say like how how did you feel about Ireland like and I would always say amazing you're gonna fly into Dublin and get the hell out of Dublin. Like it's lovely get the hell to the West you know like and as someone that has done that and traveled and came here and you know pre-booked hotels in Dublin in 2015 and then was like oh we're gonna go ahead and lose that money and get ourselves a car and go out west right so then when I came again last year in 2025 like I made sure sure sure we're gonna land and like exit out of Dublin but I want to make sure that we're visiting so many different places and do the ring of carry and and go to Killarney and I love Killarney. That's why I wanted to go there again and you know go to Galway because I love Galway like things like that. Like I was you know as a tourist I was always like oof let's get the hell out of Dublin. So when I first came here I initially did have housing worked out and that fell through just because of all the very valid reasons trying to preserve people's visas like not wanting to mess anything up for anyone um I came to the Dublin area I was like okay I'll give myself a month I'll I'll explore around but then if I don't find housing really quickly then I'm I'm for sure gonna like go south or go west or whatever. And what was interesting is I feel like being here I think I wrote off Dublin and what I realized is I think a lot of Irish people do as well.

Seosamh 46:50

You write off the plate because it's not it's country mouse city mouse thinking.

Sasha Piton 46:54

Yes and it's you yes it's a beautiful country and there's so much to see all over this country and it's a small country so visiting a lot of it is very accessible and possible which is amazing because of trains and tours and all the things but I think it's been so interesting for me at least to experience Dublin in a way that's like even as a tourist who's visited here I was always like ugh I don't care about Dublin. Like I'd be here for a few days and I can't yes but I think part of that is too like having gone to France and spending time with family in Europe I don't do touristy things when I travel my least favorite thing to do when I travel is to do touristy things. What's what's your favorite part if I can ask what's your favorite part of travel like if that's your if that's your least favorite what'd you say like your favorite part is cultural exchange like I want to talk to local people I want to talk about food. Yes I want to I don't care about like like going to the Guinness storehouse that is very the Guinness is very Irish so like I was like yeah you know what I don't know a lot about that for sure for sure but then like buying a sweater with like Guinness written on it is like no you know what I mean like don't care about that. So I think what I've loved here about being here for the last month and even seeking out housing and and just finding different creative opportunities whether it's acting modeling creating here in Dublin it's making me realize I think I wrote off this city many times that I've been here and I'm finding myself very pleasantly surprised because Dublin County is actually quite large. And I think you write off the city center as something and you're like eh compared to the rest of Ireland like Dublin like and it's true sure sure like I think it's pretty big. But again I don't give a crap about Temple Bar. I'm not as a tourist that's not where I want to go you know I did want to see like Trinity College and like some other like you know historic at you know the Guinness store house like I wanted to see some of those things and then I was like I don't want to you know so I like that the farther out west you get yes you're gonna do things as a tourist but it's not as touristy. Like going to a pub to do a whiskey tasting is something that I really enjoyed when I was in Killarney. Like I don't think locals are necessarily doing a whiskey tasting but I just wanted to like try a bunch of different whiskies and like then you know then going to a pub that night and then being like what's your favorite one you know like just I like those things but I think I'm really pleasantly surprised by Dublin. So all I can say is I feel like what I've noticed is myself included as well as a lot of Irish people like oh get the hell out of Dublin. And I've felt that for so many years of like yeah there's so much more to see in this country and it's absolutely beautiful. And I feel very blessed that I've had the opportunity to travel in this country previous to this. But when I'm thinking about where I want to live I am genuinely so impressed by Dublin. I think the people have are so lovely. There's so many people doing so many different things there's a lot of there's a lot of like um you can get into the city center there's a lot going on but you can also get out of the city center and Dublin County itself is actually very beautiful. Like so I think for me it's been fun to realize that living here being someone that's chosen to move to Ireland I'm finding myself appreciating a place that I previously had written off.

Seosamh 49:47

Oh I love that. And um there's actually I'll I'll I'll make sure I've got a link to it in the show notes or something uh but there is a great uh documentary that you can still find mirrors of on YouTube that Ronnie drew himself the Dubliners did just walk around a tour, Dublin I want to say it was the late 70s early 80s something like that. It's got that kind of that haze of like this looks like something that was shot in the 70s or 80s you know I'll see if I can find a link to that where he actually goes over a lot of the local history and like why why the Liberties are named the Liberties and I feel like it's easier to fall in love with the place whenever you really sit down and get to look learn the story of the place. And Temple Bar, yeah it's um it's what it is. But I feel like if you if if someone tells me any time okay so here's how we simplify this if somebody comes back and and they say hey I just got back from Ireland I was like oh what did you do? I will I will I will admit to you I am quietly judging you. So if they come back and they're like oh we went to Temple Bar and then we did a Guinness tasting and then oh god what's something else? Um we saw uh we saw some river dancing that was over by something by the Liffy. Did you know there was a Liffy? Oh my god you're smiling you're like oh it's good good always good to go back and see the counties that's wonderful you know and you're like slightly so dying inside but when someone comes back and they say well we tried to hit all we try to hit all of the holy wells in four counties and we ran out of time and that's when I'm like I am by in the next round you're gonna tell me absolutely everything which wells did you hit which county did you do woman what are we doing you know like that tells me like that's someone who's really hooking in like when you tell me that you are uh up and down the wild uh the wild Atlantic way that means um trying to think of some cool features there do you see a St. Brendan statue the big one where he's doing the like this yes yeah where he's like that and uh Taurus I love I love when po uh people uh post pictures of their kids they're like Taurus coming by and their kids are like oh they're like pointing just like the statue um but it's it's one of those things there are folks who have lived in Ireland their entire lives and all they've done is functionally watch the Kardashians like they just they they're not engaging with the culture that much either they'll come over and there are some folks from Ireland who honestly I don't know how they manage it. They're not up on their current events um oh I had somebody who came over who I asked them who the who the uh Teoch was and they didn't know and then I asked him who the Wuchstaron was the president and they didn't know and this was during like this was during uh Michael D. Higgins period so I don't know how that happens but but it does. And the folks like that kind of make it over and you see that a lot in the States too and that's again a perspective that you get from different areas of the diaspora that aren't really spun wide and and unless there's a movie or a TV show about it. Then technically speaking like nobody's really going to even acknowledge it exists. But it's definitely a thing. Uh there is a stereotype where you have American tourists that come over and you know they don't know anything about Irish culture, they don't know anything about Irish history um and that they get exasperated with these folks. But what they don't know is that there are plenty of folks that come over to the DC area, New York or East Coast and they'll get they'll try to have a conversation with you the second that they say you know you you can kind of check that they're Irish you can catch or you say they've got they've got like you know a bad Gansion or something. Um GAA stuff and you pop over and you're like hey do you hear uh did you hear about the uh uh fuel protests or whatever and they could look at you and be like oh is that what that was and you just want to stare at them like a cow stares at an oncoming train and it's like okay now dang it like Americans get haranged for not knowing like history and things but like this is something that affects like your life right now like your tax dollars and things you don't know about this right now? It always gets me. Like but that's not a that's not a stereotype that like has a name or like a a named caricature or um even really a terma for it. Uh what is there what is the what is the reverse of a plastic patty? Like what's a I don't know. It's because plastic patty doesn't feel right for someone who actually comes from the island. I feel like it would have to be something different. And powder plastic I don't think that's necessarily what I would do with uh what I would go with. You're totally right I should just I should just hit you with these things.

Sasha Piton 54:11

So um so your your Irish heritage comes to you from your mother's side you were saying yeah uh we did family history I mean years ago and and have been doing it for years and yes on my mom's side both sets of her like both sets of her grandparents had grandparents who were born in Ireland but came over here really little or maybe green I don't know but they left in the 1860s like so many people did in that time and then you know continued to marry Irish Catholics who continue to marry Irish Catholics who continue to marry Irish Catholics um until my mom's generation. So both of her parents gay old pattern Catholicism yeah yeah exactly um and so yeah like I my mom goes by her mom's maiden name right now Carol. So it's fun for me to see Carol all over you know even just like Carol's gifts or Carol's Irish gift shop or whatever. It's like because my mom's last name is not very common where we lived and especially amongst like I don't know a lot of like Hispanic culture where I grew up right where she's the only Jeannie Carol you know like whereas here it's a very common name but you know where we lived it's not so it's fun for me to like kind of see that around that's so cool. Yeah yeah I'd have to learn a little bit more about um I want to say we're like O'Reilly's and Ryan's and I mean all the I've all the like you know we come from County Claire I know that you have family around yeah exactly so it wouldn't surprise me but yeah I and then again to learn that my dad is Irish as well we don't know anything about his Irish side or anything where that comes from or who we know nothing. But yeah I feel like there is a little bit of a thing where like Americans because it's it's a place that you know was colonized and people came over like I feel like for a lot of people like I only say I'm French because I am an actual French citizen right like uh whereas I feel like people I'm not like I'm Irish because I might be like ancestrally like I'm a descendant of Irish people you know like my heritage is Irish because I feel like I wouldn't sit here and say to an Irish person like I'm Irish they're gonna be like girl you are not like well so I feel like um that claim that claim to Irish cultural uh connection or membership uh I feel like it's easier for folks to get their head around the way that it's used in places like the United States or broader in the diaspora where like you said you're the only they're the only you're the only Carolos on your street but in Ireland there there's friggin' whole areas where there's probably lousy with them all the cousins live there, you know?

Seosamh 56:34

Yeah. Um so uh so I like I was saying before in the previous com uh earlier in the conversation that the um the question are you Irish if you frame instead of someone say instead of the perspective of focusing on someone who says I am Irish asserting it if you think about it as someone coming to them and saying are you Irish as a proxy question right it's not necessarily a Boolean like membership question because ultimately I think if you ask that that doesn't have a lot of utility right like what do you do with that information and therefore like you have you have a valid Irish passport or a an a passport that allows you to live in Ireland. That doesn't necessarily mean that you went to a Gale skull it doesn't necessarily mean that you lived around but according to the laws of the land yeah you're you're there the right way in in the you know the we mentioned the right way earlier too but like you did all of that stuff too oh my goodness um but the the um claim to cultural identity I think it's it's a broad nut and that there's lots of different ways to be a gale and that it doesn't have to be a cut and dry proposition of uh do I think um that this person do I think that this person is the most exemplary um archetype or stereotype of what I think an Irish person is or must be in order to claim that Irish heritage or cultural connection easily. You know? And I feel like part of the pro part of the problem with demanding that kind of stuff is that's when you get the most paddywacked Americans is the people who are trying really really hard to they'll wear like a shamrock t-shirt all over they they have like it's they have a collection of Irish stuff where uh what's what's the joke? It's a mile wide and an inch deep where like there's not a lot of depth to the stuff they have like how many pogma holding signs can you have in a house? You know? And I feel like part of that drive from folks out in the diaspora to even do that stuff and and to really accrue that kind of collection is because they're they're pushed to try to assert those things when I feel like if we all just calm down and and you and I could just say we're both different kinds of gales you know and that there can be different kinds of gales and honestly I'm more interested in what kinds of gales are there because there are so many kinds of gales there are gales in Argentina there are girls in Mexico City there are gales everywhere.

Sasha Piton 59:03

Yeah I also think it's really fun when you can be proud of of who you are where you come from like you know in this move it's making me a little bit more proud to be American because I think right now I'm so again I feel betrayed and I'm kind of embarrassed by my country. So claiming my Americanness doesn't feel as as exciting as it did maybe 20 years ago you know like I feel like you know anywhere you grow up you're raised to be kind of patriotic for your country and there's things of course that we want to improve but like you can feel that pride. And I don't think I have felt that pride until moving here and then talking with Irish people that are proud about their country and the things that they love about their culture and what they do. And for me to feel welcomed and loved as an American is reminding me also why I love my country. And yes I chose to leave at this time and of course with the political climate it makes it very obvious that like so many Americans are like feel like they're skaping the states right but it's definitely like something that I appreciate about the Irish people is I think there are people that find pride in their culture and their traditions and their life.

Seosamh 1:00:01

They find that pride by fixing it. They don't get a flat tire and say I'll never drive again or cars are evil or you know this car is dead and I need a brand new one. Like you know you try and you try and you try and you try until you know you wear holes in your boots. But I feel like that that's that's one of my favorite forms of pride is refusal to let something be discarded because something about it is broken. And part of me feels like that's also somewhat informed by um Irish culture and that there's there's something connecting about that especially whenever it's shared by the person that you're talking to and they kind of get that like they vibe with that feeling it's like you know what I understand that and that that does feel resonant love that I feel welcomed here and loved here not in spite of being American but because I am American and I think that as I talk to people like they can tell I have like a good head on my shoulders and therefore smoking a stereotype too they're like oh no you're not supposed to be friends with the American who on earth is friends with an American you know yeah but like that's great. I love hearing that stuff yeah definitely good report cards for the folks that for the folks there. Yeah um do you do you think that there's any future where you might want to learn um even even just like Duolingo just like pop on some Duolingo absolutely I would like to take classes not Duolingo but 100% like again having thank you bless you like one of our first episodes was on why Duolingo is not necessarily a great option but it is accessible and people will try it.

Sasha Piton 1:01:30

For sure but I didn't move to Ireland to then take Duolingo lessons. You know what I mean?

Seosamh 1:01:34

I get it. I get it.

Sasha Piton 1:01:35

So yes I would absolutely take class my friend Kenzie she's American and she came here um she's been here about six months and she just signed up for Irish classes as well. She really is so interested and she really appreciates it and and I and she's also like a redhead like she is very like I came here because I'm Irish in my culture and I like I'm bringing our people back home you know but um no absolutely I would love to take a class and learn because I also think that's so important. I would love to take again I'm getting settled I don't have housing yet so there's a lot of things I want to do but I don't think I'm very well equipped in the Irish history and I would love to get a better education but like from you know like I want to take classes I want to do things with education to expand that and absolutely learning a little bit more Irish I love that it's spoken on the trains. I love it almost feels like there's a little bit of a renaissance of it you know maybe that's a misunderstanding that I'm having but I feel like the Irish language wasn't as popular to be spoken.

Seosamh 1:02:23

They were still but now there's a lot of people like no no I'm determined we were determined to keep it as part of our country 2018 yeah there's been a there's been a groundswell so here's the funny thing um part of the reason why part of the reason why I ask if there's interest in uh maybe picking up uh a couple of fuck is because there has been a massive uh grassroots groundswell of the Irish language and there's lots of folks that like to speculate on well nobody knows why there's so many people speaking it now is it just that kneecap is a thing is it just that this other thing is a thing um I think that you actually get a pretty good perspective of why this is happening out in the diaspora but people are talking to us or asking us. Um one of the things that I think has definitely helped is in uh in 2018 this actually in previous episode uh I think this was in our um Sabrina episode or we have to talk about Sabrina the the Netflix Sabrina um where in 2018 um Teggy Cahers which is um the TV station the Irish language TV station in uh Ireland they had a whole campaign called Bliangailaga which is year of Irish Billion Gaelaga Year of Irish language and um during this campaign uh they had this whole thing with like Togalaga gum and it was on like people's uh profile frames it looks like it was a whole big push massive push 2018 and I don't know how they were measuring success but I guess in in Ireland they didn't think that they saw a lot of uptake but out here a lot of folks took it up and it wasn't when I mean out here I mean the big out here not just not just out in the States but Canada Australia Argentina Mexico City like the whole freaky world kind of picked up on that and it's been slowly growing and and accumulating over that time. So that that market of people who want this these Irish language goods and services has been growing and growing and growing over time. And I do think that kneecap has done a massive amount of work in this area too. I think that people like to kind of look down their noses at kneecap and say, you know oh well I wish somebody with better Irish or that didn't sing about these things or did that presented this way or didn't have a terrorism trial or all this stuff. And I feel like that's the that's people letting the perfect be the opposite of the um be the enemy of the good right the perfect being the enemy of the good is demanding that the the thing that brings the Irish language back has to be you know on a white horse and like it has a PhD and doesn't have a criminal record and you know doesn't say f you know all that stuff. But I feel like the biggest groundswell has largely been and I'd probably take a hit for it has been folks out in the diaspora largely pagans um and people driving this interest because they're putting a lot of money directly into these uh organizations and these uh stores and these artists and I think that that should continue and keep growing and it it has been over time. If you look about Google Trends and you look at the deflection for uh Grailga at the end of 2018 you can see that kind of initial heartbeat spark and then it looks like an actual pulse where it's like St. Pat's St. Pat's St. Pat's St. Pat's you know and not in Google Trends where people will try to learn that learn more of their Irish but the trick is since 2018 more people have been keeping it using it between St. Pat's to St. Pat's I used to we used to we used to joke you know growing up in ages ago be like nah we're we're fucking gales out here like you're gonna hear us speak in Irish like just to yell at each other on the on the street or if a cop walks and you know um but the there has been a return to um Irish language signage there's been a return To a lot of folks go into school specifically for the Irish language. I actually frequent free Zoom and uh Discord choras, which are just um they're events where you get together just to use your Irish with folks for no other reason. You just to keep it sharp. And you talk about anything. Like you just there's no it's not a homework assignment. You just sit and you drink your coffee and you chat with folks and you screw up here and there, but you're among friends and no one records it, so it's fine, right? It's a good time. I actually my screen name uh folks find this amusing. My screen name for the longest time was Korra the Explora. Where you just hop around different Zoom chorus and uh meet folks from uh all over the diaspora. And I loved I loved the chorus the most in countries where English is not a primary language. We're like there is no net. Let's do this, you know. So if you're gonna have to explain something to me, you're gonna have to do it in the Irish you have, and like gestures and like drawing pictures and stuff. Like I enjoy that stuff. Um anyway, I that's it that's a digression. Um good stuff. Well, I I really appreciate your time, and uh it maybe we'll have you back sometime.

Sasha Piton 1:07:06

That'd be great. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Seosamh 1:07:08

Oh, go raibh maith agat! You have a good one.

Sasha Piton 1:07:10

You too.